在中國上海，什么樣的人算富人？| 街頭采訪
What’s Considered Rich in Shanghai, China? | Street Interview
譯文簡介
網(wǎng)友：作為一個上海的老居民，我的看法是：這些采訪中的人都是中產(chǎn)階級，他們認為年薪一百萬人民幣就是富有的定義。其實不是，富人不需要工資，他們關心的是投資回報并有個人凈資產(chǎn)來打動銀行（以便借更多的錢）。如果你的主要收入是工資，那么你并不富有，你只是在讓你的老板更富有......
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在中國上海，什么樣的人算富人？| 街頭采訪
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@turtlesoup8134
My thought as an old resident of Shanghai:
These people in the interview are all the middle class. They think that earning one million RMB a year in salary is the definition of being rich. Its not. Rich people do not need a salary. They have return of investment to worry about and have personal networth to impress the bank (to loan them for more money). If your main income is your salary, then you are not rich, you are making your boss rich.
What is poor in Shanghai? Actually, there is only very few local that is "stuck" in Shanghai due to poverty. Most local inherit great amount of wealth from their parents and have relatively stable jobs. There are of course a few local that gamble away their money to poverty, but it is very rare. The "poor" are mainly recent graduates flocking to shanghai in search of work. I would not consider them poor either. They can always fall back to their hometown and resettle with their family if things get too rough for them in Shanghai. These people are not even Shanghai residence, therefore it is a stretch to include them in the calculation of wealth disparity in Shanghai. A salary below 8000 RMB is probably what I consider being poor in Shanghai, but not poverty level poor. They can get by but cannot take vacation, eat out everyday or save any significant amount of money.
作為一個上海的老居民，我的看法是：
這些采訪中的人都是中產(chǎn)階級，他們認為年薪一百萬人民幣就是富有的定義。其實不是，富人不需要工資，他們關心的是投資回報并有個人凈資產(chǎn)來打動銀行（以便借更多的錢）。如果你的主要收入是工資，那么你并不富有，你只是在讓你的老板更富有。
在上海什么是貧窮？實際上，很少有本地人因為貧困而“困”在上海。大多數(shù)本地人從父母那里繼承了大量的財富并有相對穩(wěn)定的工作。當然，也有少數(shù)本地人因為賭博而陷入貧困，但這非常罕見。“窮人”主要是那些涌入上海尋找工作的應屆畢業(yè)生。我也不會認為他們是窮人，因為如果他們在上海的生活太艱難，他們總是可以回到家鄉(xiāng)與家人重新安頓。這些人甚至不是上海居民，因此將他們納入上海貧富差距的計算中是有些牽強的。我認為月薪低于8000元人民幣在上海算是貧窮，但還不至于到貧困水平，因為他們可以勉強維持生活，但無法度假、每天外出就餐或存下任何可觀的錢。
Can I ask something that might be a stupid question?
We have homeless and genuinely poor people in my city (Melbourne). Some of them came from other parts of Australia, or the same state. Sometimes it is because there is better services available for the homeless, or for people who have other issues which cause them to become homeless, like drug addiction. Are there not people like that in Shanghai. You mention someone who gambles. What about someone with complex mental health issues, and no family? Is there adequate government support for them, that you can say they are not precisely 'in poverty'? Melbourne is a very rich city, but politically it seems that we don't make the choice to solve these issues, while other places do. I know this can be a seedy topic, but I'm genuinely interested in how China deals with this stuff.
我能問一個可能很蠢的問題嗎？
在我的城市（墨爾本），有無家可歸和真正貧窮的人，他們中的一些人來自澳大利亞的其他地方或同一個州。有時是因為無家可歸者有更好的服務，或者因為其他問題導致他們無家可歸，比如毒癮。上海沒有這樣的人嗎？你提到了賭博的人，那么那些有復雜心理健康問題且沒有家人的人呢？政府有足夠的支持讓他們不至于陷入“貧困”嗎？墨爾本是一個非常富裕的城市，但在政治上我們似乎沒有選擇解決這些問題，而其他地方卻做到了。我知道這可能是一個敏感的話題，但我真的很感興趣中國是如何處理這些問題的。
@jamesrowlands8971 I am a Canadian and used to live in Vancouver. The things you describe happens in Vancouver as well and thats why today there are tent cities in Vancouver while the rich lives in multimillion dollar homes. How is this different than China?
China has the hukou system. If you don't have the hukou (resident permit) of the city you live in, you do not get the welfare service of the city. This ancient system (thousands of years ago) is still in use today because to prevent the exact problem you describe in your city.
These jobless and homeless people in Shanghai would rather go home than to starve on the street. There are strict rules to where you can sleep at night if you are homeless. You don't see homeless people often in shanghai and you can probably see them around the end of the year near Chinese New Year or right after Chinese new year. These temporary homeless are waiting to go home for Chinese New Year or waiting for a new job after Chinese New Year. Would people choose to be homeless and hungry if they have the option of a proper shelter and proper food? I am pretty sure they will choose the latter.
Its actually not easy to be homeless in China. There is no stigma in living with the parents and most parents are willing to shelter their children in their homes even if their relationship wasn't that good.
Its relatively easy to find a job in China as a PRC citizen if you are willing to work hard. There are many fall back jobs such as being delivery man or becoming Didi drivers. Many become jobless because they do not want to do those job due to various social reason such as pride or having the option to stay jobless for long period of time without starving or being homeless.
For the mentally ill, there are gov-run place for them to stay in. However, most of the minor cases of mental illness are being taken care of by their own family members.
Chinese in general accept that they don't live in a welfare society and must work to live. They will scramble something to make money on the side and get by. There are gov welfare but many don't even know how to apply for one or know that it exist.
我是加拿大人，曾經(jīng)生活在溫哥華。你描述的情況在溫哥華也發(fā)生過，這就是為什么現(xiàn)在溫哥華有帳篷城市，而富人住在數(shù)百萬美元的房子里的原因。這與中國的不同之處在于：
中國有戶口制度。如果你沒有你所居住的城市的戶口（居住證），你就無法享受該城市的福利服務。這個古老的制度（幾千年前）至今仍在使用以防止你描述的城市問題。
上海的失業(yè)和無家可歸者寧愿回家也不愿在街上挨餓。如果你是無家可歸者，晚上睡覺的地方有嚴格的規(guī)定。你在上海不會經(jīng)?？吹綗o家可歸者，可能只有在年底臨近春節(jié)或春節(jié)后才會看到他們，這些臨時的無家可歸者正在等待回家過年或等待春節(jié)后的新工作。如果人們有住在適當?shù)谋幼o所并有適當?shù)氖澄锏倪x擇，他們會選擇無家可歸和挨餓嗎？我敢肯定他們會選擇后者。
在中國，無家可歸其實并不容易。與父母同住并沒有污名，大多數(shù)父母愿意讓他們的孩子住在家里，即使他們的關系不是很好。
作為中國公民，如果你愿意努力工作，找到工作相對容易。有許多后備工作，比如送外賣或成為滴滴司機。許多人失業(yè)是因為他們由于各種社會原因（如自尊或可以選擇長時間失業(yè)而不挨餓或無家可歸）不愿意做這些工作。
對于精神病患者，有政府運營的地方供他們居住。然而，大多數(shù)輕微的精神疾病患者都是由他們的家人照顧的。
中國人普遍接受他們不生活在福利社會，必須工作才能生活的事實，他們會想辦法賺點錢維持生活。雖然存在政府福利，但許多人甚至不知道如何申請或知道它的存在。
Being a 5th generation Shanghainese, the wealth are usually locals like my family, who were able to buy the houses cheap in the 90s and are worth millions of US dollars today. But of course some of that wealth evaporated with the housing bubble burst, but even now the median apartment still cost 30x median annual income. And after property tax was started in 2011, rent also increased a lot, so many non-locals are paying big parts of their wages to local property owners.
作為一個第五代上海人，財富通常屬于像我這樣的本地人，他們在上世紀90年代以低價購買了房子，如今這些房子價值數(shù)百萬美元。當然，隨著房地產(chǎn)泡沫的破裂，部分財富蒸發(fā)了，但即使現(xiàn)在，中位房價仍然是年收入中位數(shù)的30倍。自2011年房產(chǎn)稅開始實施后，租金也大幅上漲，因此許多非本地人將大部分工資支付給了本地的房產(chǎn)所有者。
Yup, locals are all living off of generational wealth, but they still work and aren't lazy. I didn't know about the property tax, so I looked it up and it's only for families owning more than 60 square meters per person. That would definitely affect the people owning 2-3 investment apartments!
是的，本地人都靠世代積累的財富生活，但他們?nèi)匀还ぷ?，并不懶惰。我不知道房產(chǎn)稅的事，所以我查了一下，發(fā)現(xiàn)它只適用于人均擁有超過60平方米的家庭。這肯定會影響到那些擁有2-3套投資房產(chǎn)的人！
@Waingro808 只要你不進行房產(chǎn)交易，是不會征收房產(chǎn)稅的。當你在房地產(chǎn)管理機構激活了你的賬號進行交易后，政府才會過問你擁有的所有房產(chǎn)以及是否符合征收標準。房產(chǎn)稅目前只在上海和重慶兩個城市征收。沒有推廣的原因就是會影響房地產(chǎn)市場。而政府買賣土地的利潤是支撐財政的主要收入。所以即便是上海和重慶，雖然被國家命令要進行試點，但在執(zhí)行的時候也不是很認真。
I'd say people should stop showing off your wealth. You would attract too much unwanted attention. Without their parents most local shanghai people can't afford houses of their own. (There are exceptions) Being a millionaire isn't rich. Because being a billionaire is a reality at the moment.
我認為人們應該停止炫耀財富，因為你會吸引太多不必要的關注。沒有父母的幫助，大多數(shù)上海本地人買不起自己的房子（當然有例外）。成為百萬富翁并不算富有，因為現(xiàn)在成為億萬富翁才是現(xiàn)實。
All of the interviewees are articulate. I am impressed.
所有受訪者都表達得很清晰，這讓我印象深刻。
I would expect anyone with college level education to be articulated about their own experiences.
我期望任何有大學教育水平的人都能清晰地表達自己的經(jīng)歷。
Because the location they are interviewing is probably middle upper class and these guys are extremely well educated with uni level degrees. To even get into a uni that will get you these jobs in China is a feat by itself.
It has taken these guys 2x 3x the effort compared to the equivalent Western positions to get there.
因為他們采訪的對象可能是中上層階級，這些人受過高等教育，擁有大學學位。在中國，能進入一所讓你獲得這些工作的大學本身就是一項壯舉。
與西方同等職位相比，這些人付出了2到3倍的努力才能達到這個位置。
“What is considered rich as an employee in Shanghai” is a better title. CEO in Shanghai is not as rich as CEO in the US. The rich are ppl who own conglomerates or ppl from old money. Just by being employed is difficult to break into those circles and be rich, like some interviewees have said.
“在上海作為員工，怎樣會被認為是富有”是一個更好的標題。上海的CEO沒有美國的CEO富有。富人是那些擁有企業(yè)集團或來自老錢家族的人，僅僅通過就業(yè)很難進入這些圈子并變得富有，就像一些受訪者所說的那樣。
The relocation policy（動遷）is a big one that made tons of people rich in Shanghai. My uncle’s old apartment was picked to be demolished, so the govt provided him
動遷政策是讓許多上海人致富的一大原因。我叔叔的老公寓被選中拆除，政府給了他1000萬元人民幣用于搬遷，他花了700萬元在上海郊區(qū)買了一套公寓，還剩下300萬元可以隨意花費，再加上他已經(jīng)領取的退休金，他這輩子都不用愁了。
10m yuan is about 1.4m USD. 3m is about 400k. Probably enough to retire in Shanghai but not enough in western countries. The best part about China is the low cost of living. In the US to live a comfortable life you’d need at least another 1-2m usd in savings and invested well to retire comfortably at an earlier age.
1000萬元人民幣約合140萬美元，300萬元約合40萬美元。這可能足夠在上海退休，但在西方國家就不夠了。中國最好的部分是生活成本低。在美國，要過上舒適的生活，你至少需要另外100-200萬美元的儲蓄并進行良好的投資，才能在較早的年齡舒適地退休。
@charlescg3904 low cost anywhere outside of Beijing and Shanghai, these 2 places have the same cost as Tokyo, but still of course much lower than NA and europe
在北京和上海以外的任何地方，生活成本都很低。雖然這兩個地方的生活成本與東京相當，但仍然比北美和歐洲低得多。
@charlescg3904 Bruh, retiring in Shanghai probably worst idea in China. There are hundreds of lower tier cities that are chill but still highly developed. With $400k, you can live like a kind till you die in those small cities. That's why during Chinese new year, younger generation living in the giant cities travel to their parents retired in the countryside or small towns.
兄弟，在上海退休可能是中國最糟糕的想法，因為中國有數(shù)百個既舒適又高度發(fā)達的低線城市。有了40萬美元，你可以在這些小城市里像國王一樣生活到死。這就是為什么在春節(jié)期間，生活在大城市的年輕一代會去他們的父母退休的鄉(xiāng)村或小鎮(zhèn)的原因。
The other day I had lunch with my parents in Huaihai road, one of the busiest roads in Shanghai, it was grilled meat, three of us spent in total about 20 usd, we can barely finish the food, too many different dishes were served, so Shanghai is not as expensive as you thought
前幾天我和父母在上海最繁忙的道路之一淮海路吃了午飯，吃的是烤肉，我們?nèi)齻€人總共花了大約20美元，幾乎吃不完，上了太多不同的菜，所以上海并沒有你想象的那么貴。
My family is from Shanghai and they would always tell me "in Shanghai, there's rich people and SUPER rich people"! Every time I visit I feel it a little bit more and more. These interviews were so interesting to watch!
我的家人來自上海，他們總是告訴我“在上海，有富人和超級富人”！每次我去上海，這種感覺越來越強烈。這些采訪非常有趣！
In the United States, it takes
5.8Milliondollarstobeinthetop12.26 million dollars (3 Billion Korean won) In China it's
1.1milliondollars(8.1millionyuan).InSingaporeit s5.1 million dollars (7 million Singapore dollars)
在美國，需要580萬美元才能進入前1%。在韓國，需要226萬美元（30億韓元）。在中國，需要110萬美元（810萬元人民幣）。在新加坡，需要510萬美元（700萬新加坡元）。
To compare SH with US cities would be unfair since the national wage difference is too big. However it is quite easy now for fresh graduates to get a higher wage in SH than Tokyo, and that's impressive development from SH
將上海與美國城市進行比較是不公平的，因為國家工資差距太大。然而，現(xiàn)在應屆畢業(yè)生在上海獲得比東京更高的工資相當容易，這是上海的顯著發(fā)展。
it's absolutely not true, graduats in Shanghai are very difficult to get a job, "keng lao" 啃老 "tang ping"躺平 means no income and living with parents , that is very common in shanghai and all china.
這絕對不是真的，上海的畢業(yè)生很難找到工作，“啃老”和“躺平”意味著沒有收入并與父母同住，這在上海和整個中國都非常普遍。
To compare a big country with a small country is also unfair
Leave Japan alone bro also that’s not true at all Japan gdp per capital is way higher lol
將一個大國與一個小國進行比較也是不公平的。別管日本了，兄弟，這根本不是真的，日本的人均GDP要高得多。
Comparison using absolute $ income is meaningless. You need to factor in cost of living which is represented by PPP (Purchasing power parity). On top of that you also need to consider difference in tax systems, not just the tax brackets but also some countries tax you on income derived from investments and bank interests whereas some countries don't.
使用絕對美元收入進行比較是沒有意義的，你需要考慮生活成本，這由購買力平價（PPP）體現(xiàn)。除此之外，你還需要考慮稅收制度的差異，不僅是稅率，還有一些國家會對投資收入和銀行利息征稅，而另一些國家則不征稅。
Everyone looked so beautiful in this video. idk but that's the first word that popped to my mind. Like everywhere else it feels like there's unclean air around us, but even in a city like Shanghai, it looked so clean and everyone looked more beautiful
在這個視頻中，每個人看起來都很美。我不知道為什么，但這是我腦海中浮現(xiàn)的第一個詞。就像其他地方一樣，我感覺我們周圍的空氣不干凈，但即使在上海這樣的城市，它看起來也很干凈，每個人都看起來更美。
The difference btwn man on the street videos for other countries compared to ones with Americans is an embarrassment. They are so articulate and their answers are well thought out. Great pronunciation as well. Opposite in america in most cases
其他國家與美國的街頭采訪視頻之間的差異令人尷尬。他們表達得非常清晰，回答也經(jīng)過深思熟慮，發(fā)音也很棒。在美國大多數(shù)情況下則相反。
We have a comedy group in Australia called The Chaser, who used to do pranks on Americans with maps and questions about the places on the map. I really wonder how they'd go in a place like Shanghai. They'd probably end up getting an education in geography.
我們在澳大利亞有一個喜劇團體叫The Chaser，他們曾經(jīng)用地圖和關于地圖上的地點的問題來惡搞美國人。我真的很想知道他們在上海這樣的地方會怎么樣，他們可能會最終接受地理教育。
been to Shanghai for work related trip, love the city.. it was amazing, the food, the atmosphere.. i dont know for people that rent and really live there.. but to me as visitor.. its way better and cheaper compared to Singapore
曾因工作相關的原因去過上海，我喜歡這座城市……它很棒，食物、氛圍……我不知道對于那些租房并真正生活在那里的人來說如何……但對我來說作為游客……它比新加坡好得多且便宜。
Just a few weeks ago, i was in Shanghai. Food was so good and cheap compared to Singapore.
DaDong roast duck was only RMB288. In Singapore it would cost at least RMB600 for the same thing.
Bubble tea in Shanghai only RMB7 to 10, in Singapore at least RMB15 to 30
Good hotel in Shanghai only RMB1000 a nite, in Singapore, similar hotel in city location is at least RMB2000 a nite
就在幾周前，我生活上海，食物非常好且比新加坡便宜。
大董烤鴨只要288元人民幣，而在新加坡，同樣的東西至少要600元人民幣。
上海的奶茶只要7到10元人民幣，而在新加坡至少要15到30元人民幣。
上海的好酒店每晚只要1000元人民幣，而在新加坡，類似的城市酒店每晚至少要2000元人民幣。
Gotta say all interviewees in this vid are not only smart but also keen on both how things going on around them in China, and how things run in the west say US, THAT'S why they look staying chill while answering questions, seeing things in a much confident manner other than acting like crying babe and complaining everything downturn in this gloomy economic circumstance.
我不得不說這個視頻中的所有受訪者不僅聰明，而且對中國周圍發(fā)生的事情以及西方（比如美國）的運作方式都很敏銳，這就是為什么他們在回答問題時看起來很冷靜，以非常自信的方式看待事物而不是像哭鬧的嬰兒一樣抱怨在這個暗淡的經(jīng)濟環(huán)境中一切都在下滑。
China is very cheap compared with the whole world. I have been to many countries in Asia, and the basic prices in Shanghai are even cheaper than my hometown of Kaohsiung, Taiwan. In my observation, compared with Japan and Taiwan today, people in China are closer to the way of thinking of Americans and are more willing to start a business and try, which is not a common culture in East Asia or Asia.
與全世界相比，中國非常便宜。我去過亞洲的許多國家，上海的基本價格甚至比我的家鄉(xiāng)臺灣（地區(qū)）高雄還要便宜。根據(jù)我的觀察，與今天的日本和臺灣（地區(qū)）相比，中國人更接近美國人的思維方式，更愿意創(chuàng)業(yè)和嘗試，這在東亞或亞洲并不常見。
It's funny the massive gap between people who think working hard will make you rich vs the truth that accumulating vast wealth that replaces income makes you rich. Can you realistically accumulate vast wealth in one lifetime? Maybe if you get extremely lucky or go the entertainment route, but for the vast majority of people they will live a subsistence living, and maybe that is ok.
有趣的是認為努力工作會讓你富有的人與積累大量財富取代收入讓你富有的事實之間存在巨大的差距。你能在一生中真正積累大量的財富嗎？也許如果你非常幸運或走娛樂路線的話可以，但對于絕大多數(shù)人來說，他們將過著勉強維持生計的生活，也許這也沒問題。
It's noticeable that the more reasoned perspectives in this video come primarily from the older individual. Younger people often lack the in-depth experience to understand how society truly functions, particularly in complex urban environments. videos can easily create a misleading perception of realworld life. For instance, sexting ten seemingly decent young people on the street is a clear case of survivorship bias, and it doesn't represent the broader population. Similarly, conducting random interviews with ten people at a train station, which typically attracts lower-income demographics, will also produce skewed results.
A more accurate reflection might be obtained by interviewing diverse age groups at a Walmart after work on a Friday. However, even this approach won't provide a completely comprehensive view.The reality is that the world is complex. To achieve a truly representative understanding of current conditions requires extensive statistical data and in-depth research across diverse populations, which is beyond the scope of most video creators.
The way for viewers to maintain rational thinking is to critically uate information, avoiding being swayed by a single perspective that distorts the true nature of the world. After all, diffrent people have different aspects.
值得注意的是，這個視頻中更有理有據(jù)的觀點主要來自年長的個體。年輕人往往缺乏深入的經(jīng)驗來理解社會如何真正運作，特別是在復雜的城市環(huán)境中。視頻很容易對現(xiàn)實生活產(chǎn)生誤導性的看法。例如，在街上選擇十個看似體面的年輕人是明顯的幸存者偏差，并不能代表更廣泛的人群。同樣，在火車站隨機采訪十個人，通常吸引的是低收入人群，也會產(chǎn)生偏差的結果。
通過在周五下班后采訪沃爾瑪?shù)牟煌挲g組，可能會得到更準確的反映。然而，即使這種方法也無法提供完全全面的觀點?，F(xiàn)實是世界是復雜的。要真正代表性地理解當前狀況，需要廣泛的統(tǒng)計數(shù)據(jù)和跨不同人群的深入研究，這超出了大多數(shù)視頻創(chuàng)作者的能力。
觀眾保持理性思考的方式是批判性地評估信息，避免被單一觀點所左右，這些觀點可能會扭曲世界的真實本質。畢竟，不同的人有不同的方面。