為什么像沃爾瑪和塔吉特這樣的巨型零售商不能在關(guān)稅影響進口商品時直接轉(zhuǎn)向美國制造的產(chǎn)品？
Why can’t big retailers like Walmart and Target just switch to American-made products when tariffs hit imported goods?
譯文簡介
網(wǎng)友：當然，但我們來看看美國消費者購買的商品類型。你想要一部手機嗎？幸運的是，有美國制造商。不過可能有點有趣，你可能覺得Windows Phone有點怪，這款手機操作系統(tǒng)更奇葩，它運行在Linux平臺上。不過應用選擇不多，不過等你看到價格標簽，$1,999。便宜死了?。?
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Sure, but let’s look at the kind of goods US consumers buy. You want a mobile phone ? You’re in luck, there’s a US manufacturer. Might be a bit interesting though. You thought that Windows phones were kinda odd, this one’s a real doozy, it runs on a Linux platform. Not a vast choice of apps though, but wait till you see the price tag $1,999. So cheap !!!
當然，但我們來看看美國消費者購買的商品類型。你想要一部手機嗎？幸運的是，有美國制造商。不過可能有點有趣，你可能覺得Windows Phone有點怪，這款手機操作系統(tǒng)更奇葩，它運行在Linux平臺上。不過應用選擇不多，不過等你看到價格標簽，$1,999。便宜死了?。?！
再來說說鞋子。這應該沒問題——那些美國品牌，比如耐克、卡特彼勒、蒂姆伯蘭、新百倫等等。我的意思是這沒問題，除非你看看標簽，會發(fā)現(xiàn)是中國、越南或孟加拉制造的。放輕松，還是有一些公司做工作靴的，不管是否有鋼頭。這應該很適合你面試新工作時穿，你需要它，因為這些至少要花$250。新襯衫？不確定現(xiàn)在還有哪款是美國制造的了。
到現(xiàn)在你大概明白了吧。是的，美國或許可以不依賴進口商品，但美國制造的商品價格是進口商品的幾倍。如果你愿意支付更高的價格而不指望相應的工資增長，那也無妨。不過在你決定之前，考慮一下這一點：無論多少所得稅減免，都不會讓你的實際收入翻倍，因為沒人交50%的所得稅。所以即使政府能夠通過關(guān)稅獲得足夠的收入來彌補個人所得稅收入的損失，如果你的生活成本因為關(guān)稅或購買100%美國制造商品的成本太高而翻倍，那么你的實際情況比現(xiàn)在還要糟糕。
Tariffs will never bring in sufficient income to replace income taxes. World economy will slow, amount of trade will decline and tariff revenue will also decline. It will be the economic multiplier in reverse. A cascade of disaster
關(guān)稅永遠不會帶來足夠的收入來替代所得稅。世界經(jīng)濟將放緩，貿(mào)易量將下降，關(guān)稅收入也會減少。這將是經(jīng)濟乘數(shù)效應的反向作用。災難的級聯(lián)效應。
Even if the tariffs actually resulted in goods being made in America the result is a vicious circle - fewer imports means fewer tariffs which means less income for government which means there is now more need for income tax.
即使關(guān)稅確實導致商品在美國生產(chǎn)，結(jié)果也會是一個惡性循環(huán)——進口減少意味著關(guān)稅減少，這意味著政府收入減少，這就意味著更需要所得稅了。
Don't forget those made in America goods need raw materials and components the majority of which now face tarrifs so stick another hefty chunk on top thanks to your brilliant twat in chief.
別忘了那些美國制造的商品需要原材料和零部件，其中大多數(shù)現(xiàn)在面臨關(guān)稅，所以因為你們那位“天才”總統(tǒng)，又得加上一大筆費用。
And the ships that bring Those materials if built in China or owned by Chinese companies will pay a birthing tax every time they dock in America. Which is the bulk of world ships.
而且，如果這些原材料的運輸船是中國制造的，或者是中國公司擁有的，那么每次它們在美國?？繒r都會支付停靠稅。世界上大部分船只都是如此。
I play Xbox with some Trump fans and it is funny listening to them all crying. About the absurdly high increase, in the price of Xbox consoles and controllers. Microsoft has said that it is because of the tariffs, however they still defend Trump. They said that Microsoft is a liberal company, which increased their prices, just to make Trump look bad.
我和一些特朗普支持者一起玩Xbox，聽他們抱怨Xbox主機和控制器價格暴漲，真的很有趣。微軟表示這是因為關(guān)稅，但他們?nèi)匀粸樘乩势辙q護。他們說微軟是個自由派公司，故意提高價格就是為了讓特朗普看起來很糟糕。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.equalizerredsea.com 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
They can raise it as high as the market will bait that's free market capitalism at it's best
他們可以把價格提高到市場能接受的程度，這就是自由市場資本主義的最佳表現(xiàn)。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.equalizerredsea.com 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
This is just what the GOP wanted.
Poor wages, like flat since the 1980s, force folks to seek the lowest cost items for day to day living. Walmart does just that along with the other American companies operating offshore.
Wages being so low means folks cannot afford Ameican made, so American factories close for lack of biz.
If wages had kept up with inflation, minimum wage would be US$26/hr and folks could afford nicer things that cost more because they were made in America and American factories would still be open and employing millions. with decent pay.
這正是共和黨想要的結(jié)果。工資低，自1980年代以來幾乎沒有增長，迫使人們尋求最低成本的日常生活用品。沃爾瑪就是這樣做的，其他在海外運營的美國公司也是如此。工資這么低，意味著人們負擔不起美國制造的商品，美國的工廠因缺乏業(yè)務而關(guān)閉。如果工資能夠跟得上通貨膨脹，最低工資應該是每小時26美元，大家就能買得起更貴的、更高質(zhì)量的美國制造商品，美國工廠也會繼續(xù)運營，雇傭數(shù)百萬提供體面薪水的工人。
That would need all your companies and political parties to be run by people who aren't greedy self centred bastards. Wanting fair and equitable society is straying away from the capitalism so worshiped in your country
這需要你們所有的公司和政黨由不自私、無所不用其極的傻瓜來管理。想要一個公平公正的社會，就偏離了你們國家所崇拜的資本主義。
To think that before the election they were claiming it's all about high prices, with comments like “it's the economy,stupid “,and now it's we don't mind the prices going up, it's more important to get manufacturing back to the US. Of course that's not going to happen within a few years anyway.
This all proves it's about the hate, nothing else.
想想看，選舉前他們還聲稱一切都與高物價有關(guān)，像“經(jīng)濟，笨蛋”這樣的評論，現(xiàn)在卻說我們不在乎物價上漲，重要的是將制造業(yè)帶回美國。當然，這在幾年內(nèi)是不可能發(fā)生的。這一切都證明了，這一切都是關(guān)于仇恨，別無其他。
Those American made phones are just Chinese made parts assembled in America
那些美國制造的手機其實都是中國制造的零件組裝的。
For fresh fruit and vegetables most of the year, remember to show up on time for your supermarkets auctions. California and Florida can only grow so much, and even we can't give you grapes or apples in spring or asparagus in fall. ( Actually, we can give you mealy, tasteless Red Delicious apples in spring after 6 months in storage.)
對于大部分季節(jié)的新鮮水果和蔬菜，記得按時去超市拍賣。加利福尼亞和佛羅里達的生產(chǎn)能力有限，即使是我們也不能在春季提供葡萄或蘋果，秋季也沒有蘆筍。（實際上，春天我們可以提供儲存了六個月的無味紅美人蘋果。）
It’s all those selfish U.S. workers who won't make shirts for $1.00 for a 12-hour day. All those spoiled S.O.B.s who expect that their job will pay them enough to sleep indoors at night. Who expect to make enough to actually BUY one or two of the shirts they make. Who do these people think they are—Americans?
就是那些自私的美國工人，他們不愿意為一天12小時工作賺1美元。他們這些被寵壞的家伙，竟然指望工作能讓他們有地方睡覺，指望能賺足夠的錢買得起自己做的衣服。他們到底以為自己是誰——美國人？
It's just like Doc Martens. Most are now made in The Philippines and are sturdy but not strong. You can still buy Docs from the original English factory, but they are going to cost you a lot more. Mine were $400 compared to $70 for the mass market version.
這就像博士馬丁鞋一樣。大多數(shù)現(xiàn)在是在菲律賓制造的，雖然結(jié)實但不如原版耐用。你仍然可以從原來的英國工廠買到博士馬丁鞋，但它們會貴得多。我的一雙要400美元，而大眾版只要70美元。
and you forgot to add that the american companies will raise their prices further since they have no competition look at the price of eggs
你還忘了提，美國公司會進一步提高價格，因為它們沒有競爭對手，看看現(xiàn)在雞蛋的價格。
And none of the American manufacturers could possibly scale up to fulfill ALL of the domestic market.
而且沒有任何美國制造商能夠擴展到滿足所有國內(nèi)市場的需求。
Don’t forget bottom feeding scum of the earth piles of rancid shit like me who buy imported crap from yard sales, thrift stores, Craigslist, and Ebay. Did I mention that I’m totally unapologetic about being such refuge? I don’t give a flying F about the tariffs on cheap consumer goods. I hope they encourage more to live a life of decrepitude like refuge me thereby keeping more cheap consumer crap out of landfills. As things stand now I have to pay $8 for almost new running shoes at the thrift store instead of $4.
別忘了那些像我一樣從舊貨市場、舊貨店、Craigslist和Ebay上購買進口垃圾的人渣。我是不是提到過我完全不為自己是這種垃圾而道歉？我一點都不在乎廉價消費品的關(guān)稅。我希望它們能鼓勵更多的人像我一樣過著破敗的生活，從而把更多的廉價消費品從垃圾填埋場里排除掉?，F(xiàn)在的情況是，我得花 8 美元買幾乎全新的跑步鞋，而不是 4 美元。
Who is going to do the labor in these manufacturing plants , since tRump wants to bring it all back . I say make the MAGAggots, they all have to work in these factories since Don/Felon/Con.
既然特朗普想把所有制造業(yè)都帶回來，那么誰來做這些工廠的勞工呢？我說，讓這些 MAGA（特朗普的支持者）來做，他們得都去這些工廠工作，因為唐/罪犯/騙子。
tRUMP is laughing at you all, telling you to eat cake. If you have billions, then a $500 steak, $400 polo shirt, $2000 shoes, and $500,000 club membership are just the lifestyle of the slaveowners. Now get back to your 60 hour a week wageslave job so you can keep your medical coverage and earn in one year what he gets in one hour. You got sold a bill of goods, and he’s only renting it to you with a monthly fee that he keeps changing and raising. Now go buy a few overpriced tRUMP trinkets at his store.
特朗普在笑你們，他告訴你們有蛋糕吃。如果你有數(shù)十億，那么 500 美元的牛排、400 美元的波羅衫、2000 美元的鞋子和 50 萬美元的俱樂部會員費對他們來說不過是奴隸主的生活方式?，F(xiàn)在去做你們每周工作 60 小時的工資奴隸，去保住你們的醫(yī)保，掙一年內(nèi)的工資才抵得上他一個小時的收入。你們被賣了一個空頭支票，他只不過是把它租給你們，收取不斷上漲的月租。現(xiàn)在去他店里買幾個昂貴的特朗普紀念品吧。
Wrong question.
Canada, Mexico, Colombia, Peru, Brazil, Venezuela, etc, are all in America and therefore are American countries.
If you meant USA made, well, there aren't any products made in USA any more. Your very USA companies decided to make or buy all their stuff from China, Canada, Mexico or els where.
Why? Ask them. They are your big Yellow Baboon’ buddys.
錯的問題。
加拿大、墨西哥、哥倫比亞、秘魯、巴西、委內(nèi)瑞拉等等，都在美洲，因此它們都是美洲國家。
如果你是指美國制造，那么現(xiàn)在幾乎沒有美國制造的產(chǎn)品了。你們的美國公司決定把所有東西都從中國、加拿大、墨西哥或其他地方買來或生產(chǎn)。
為什么？問問他們吧。它們是你們那些大黃猩猩的朋友。
It's obvious there's unspoken motives that are yet to play out behind these “policies”. I wonder if an imagined collateral benefit is to use this as a wedge issue to depress American wages (further)?
顯然，這些“政策”背后還有未曾透露的動機。我想知道，是否有意通過這個作為一個分歧問題來進一步壓低美國工人工資？
Fun fact, I wore American Combat Boots to a job interview (my current job btw). Still, don’t know where they were made though. That’s probably an unusual case though, and they did cost 250$
有個有趣的事實，我在一次工作面試中穿了美國軍用靴（現(xiàn)在的工作）。不過，我至今不知道它們是在哪里制造的。這個可能算是一個不尋常的情況，而且它們花了250美元。
The maga faithful keep claiming if it is made in America they would buy first even if it cost more. A company that sells filtered showerheads was importing from China. Showerheads cost around $150, when the tariffs came in, they canvassed companies in the USA and the best they could get made at identical specs was one that retailed for around $280. So they placed an order and put both items on their website showing they had identical specs, but identifying where each were made, so people had a choice of a made in the USA showerhead costing almost double the cost of the Chinese showerhead, with identical specs. Turns out maga dont shower as they had many views for both showerheads but the only ones actually ordered and paid for were the Chinese showerheads, from memory it was something like 500 Chinese showerheads sold, zero USA showerheads sold. So even the Americans are boycotting made in the USA.
那些MAGA的支持者總是聲稱，如果是美國制造的，他們會優(yōu)先購買，即使價格更高。一個賣過濾花灑的公司曾經(jīng)從中國進口產(chǎn)品?；⒌膬r格大約是150美元，當關(guān)稅開始增加時，他們聯(lián)系了美國的公司，最終得到的最接近的產(chǎn)品規(guī)格，在美國制造的花灑零售價大約是280美元。所以他們下了訂單，并將這兩種產(chǎn)品放在自己的網(wǎng)站上，標明每個產(chǎn)品的制造地點，讓消費者有選擇購買美國制造的花灑，盡管它的價格幾乎是中國花灑的兩倍。結(jié)果發(fā)現(xiàn)，MAGA支持者似乎不怎么洗澡，雖然兩個花灑的網(wǎng)頁瀏覽量很高，但實際購買的卻只有中國制造的花灑，記得好像賣了大約500個中國花灑，而美國制造的一個也沒賣出去。
Yes, but you're forgetting that after the US emerges from the coming major depression, people will be happy to work for pennies and table scraps and businesses—the ones that are left—will be able to cut their prices while still maintaining their profit margins.
是的，但你忘了，美國在經(jīng)歷即將到來的重大蕭條后，人們將樂意為少得可憐的工資和微薄的報酬工作，而剩下的企業(yè)將能夠降低價格，同時仍保持利潤。
Don’t forget coffee! Only grown in Hawaii and Puerto Rico and that’s only 1% of world production while US consumption is 20%. Do we grow enough chicory here to stretch out the coffee supply?
別忘了咖啡！只在夏威夷和波多黎各種植，而那僅占全球生產(chǎn)的1%，而美國的消費量卻占20%。我們這里種足夠的菊苣來延長咖啡供應嗎？
This doesn’t really answer the question. However, consider that you can buy a US made pair of shoes that lasts many years or a cheaper import pair that lasts months. Which is really cheaper in the long run?
這并沒有真正回答問題。然而，考慮到你可以買一雙美國制造的鞋子，它能用很多年，或者買一雙便宜的進口鞋，它只會用幾個月。長遠來看，哪個才是真的更便宜？
Remember that tariffs will never be able to replace other sources of revenue. The idea is that tariffs make the imported goods too expensive so people won’t buy them. When nobody buys them, no tariff is collected. Tariffs that work the way Trump thinks they work will self-destruct. No revenue from that.
記住，關(guān)稅永遠無法替代其他的收入來源。目的是讓進口商品變得過于昂貴，大家就不會買了。當沒人買的時候，就不會有關(guān)稅被收取。像特朗普認為那樣能發(fā)揮作用的關(guān)稅最終會自我毀滅。沒有任何收入來自那。
That’s the most concise and detailed justification for slave labour and child labour that I’ve ever seen.
Thanks Mark.
Of course, no one would ever dare suggest that we simply don’t need most of those items that would cost more to make in North America.
這是我見過的最簡潔和詳細的為奴隸勞動和童工勞動辯護的理由。謝謝你，馬克。
當然，沒有人敢提出我們根本不需要那些如果在北美生產(chǎn)就會更貴的商品。
Woolworths was a dime store in America during the depression. As you can appreciate the stores mentioned, who rely on cheap Chinese imports, haven't done much to lift the retail section of America's living standard. Dashadow
Woolworths 在美國大蕭條時期是個廉價店。你可以理解，依賴便宜中國進口商品的這些商店并沒有多大提升美國零售行業(yè)的生活水平。
They can, no-one is stopping them.
No-one, that is, apart from the American consumers who will nearly faint when they see how much it costs to produce goods in a western economy. You think tariffs of 100%+ will put up prices? You wait until you try making those products in a country where people won’t work a 14 hour day, six days a week for peanuts.
There’s a reason that manufacturing moved to low-cost countries, and oddly enough it wasn’t because having “made in Korea” stamped on your product carried any sort of status - it’s because it’s CHEAP.
他們可以，沒有人阻止他們。
唯一阻止他們的，是美國消費者看到在西方經(jīng)濟體生產(chǎn)商品的成本時幾乎要昏倒了。你認為關(guān)稅超過100%會提高價格？等你試試看在一個人們不愿意為了微薄工資每天工作14小時、每周6天的國家生產(chǎn)這些商品時的情況。
制造業(yè)之所以轉(zhuǎn)移到低成本國家，是有原因的，奇怪的是，這并不是因為在產(chǎn)品上印上“韓國制造”會帶來某種地位——而是因為它便宜。
And you know what? The governments of those developed countries absolutely LOVED this for years - it mean that the local company could have their product made cheaply abroad, sold at high prices and the massive profit margin generated tax revenue. The wheels started to fall off when industrialists in those low-cost countries suddenly realised that they didn’t need to go through those companies to get access to the wealth US consumers - through the power of the internet they could either trade B2B with the big outlets themselves, or even ship directly to the end consumer. They could sell their product from more than they were selling it before, the consumer would get it at a cheaper sale price and all the profit was the producers - and crucially there was no profit being recorded in the wealth end-sale market either.
美國并不是唯一這樣的國家，實際上大多數(shù)發(fā)達國家都是如此。
而且你知道嗎？那些發(fā)達國家的政府多年來非常喜歡這種情況——這意味著當?shù)毓究梢詫a(chǎn)品便宜地生產(chǎn)到國外，以高價出售，巨大的利潤率帶來稅收收入。直到低成本國家的工業(yè)家突然意識到，他們不再需要通過這些公司來獲取美國消費者的財富——通過互聯(lián)網(wǎng)的力量，他們可以直接與大型零售商進行B2B交易，甚至直接向終端消費者發(fā)貨。他們可以以比以前更多的價格賣出產(chǎn)品，消費者則能以更便宜的價格買到，而所有的利潤都歸生產(chǎn)商，而至關(guān)重要的是，終端市場的財富中不再記錄利潤。
The stuff we buy at Walmarts and dollar stores are not made locally. The US shipped those jobs away years ago. Something about low skilled, low paid grunt work. They wanted to concentrate on higher tech manufacturing.
All was working until Trump decided that wasn't good enough. However he neglected to consider where these products will now come from.
我們在沃爾瑪和一元店購買的商品并不是本地生產(chǎn)的。美國早在多年前就將這些工作外包了。那時的想法是，低技能、低薪的苦力工作不值得保留，而是集中發(fā)展更高技術(shù)的制造業(yè)。
這一切運作良好，直到特朗普決定這不夠好。然而，他忽略了一個問題，那些商品現(xiàn)在將從哪里來。
The simple answer is that one of three things will happen,
Those goods will still come from abroad, but will cost the consumer more.
Those goods will be made in the US and will cost an absolute fortune.
3rd world working practices and pay will become commonplace in the US to allow these goods to be made there and be competitively priced.
簡單來說，接下來可能會發(fā)生三種情況，
這些商品仍然會從國外進貨，但消費者需要支付更高的價格。
這些商品將在美國生產(chǎn)，但成本會非常高。
為了讓這些商品在美國生產(chǎn)并保持價格競爭力，第三世界的工作條件和薪資將成為美國的常態(tài)。
Yes, that’s the price tag for not buying goods made in sweatshops by children and slaves
是的，這就是不購買由兒童和奴隸在血汗工廠里生產(chǎn)的商品的代價。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.equalizerredsea.com 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
Exactly that. The trouble is that so many things are made in that way that the entire western economy has gotten used to that and expects those prices - going back to production in high-cost countries is gonna require a readjustment of what people expect to get for their money.
正是如此。問題在于，很多東西都是這樣生產(chǎn)的，整個西方經(jīng)濟已經(jīng)習慣了這種方式，并且期望這種價格——回到高成本國家生產(chǎn)的模式，消費者就必須重新調(diào)整對物品價格的期望。
That is what many fail to see. First, one manufacturer buys from overseas and makes a profit on cheaper foreign products. Eventually, their competition does the same thing and that huge profit gets reduced when they compete for the same market. We are now in a situation where we cannot produce at those costs and importing has become competitive too. Now the direct ship skips the U.S. company from making anything on it, so our money is going overseas without helping our economy in any way (besides cheap products). While the tariffs are pushed as creating jobs here, the real benefit is our nation collects the tax dollars on all of it. In a perfect world, that would mean less taxes on our citizens. Had we had tariffs all along, we wouldn’t be in this situation!
這是許多人未能看到的事實。首先，一個制造商從海外采購并通過更便宜的外國商品獲得利潤。最終，他們的競爭對手也開始做同樣的事情，當他們爭奪相同的市場時，那些巨額利潤就會被壓縮?，F(xiàn)在我們面臨的情況是，我們無法以那些成本進行生產(chǎn)，進口商品也變得有競爭力。現(xiàn)在，直接從海外運輸繞過了美國公司，導致美國沒有從中獲得任何利潤，我們的錢正流向海外，對我們的經(jīng)濟沒有任何幫助（除了便宜的商品）。雖然關(guān)稅被宣傳為能在這里創(chuàng)造就業(yè)機會，但真正的好處是我們的國家從中收取了所有的稅收。在一個理想的世界里，這意味著我們公民的稅收會更少。如果我們一直有關(guān)稅，我們就不會陷入這種境地！